Compare with the claim of up to 20% may be hospitalized presented by the CDC (quoted in the article above). According to their own numbers the hospitalization rate was .007 % back in the days when measles ran rampant and unchecked through the population.

These guys need to learn to keep their stories straight.

In 1963 the first Measles vaccine was licensed and it was the killed measles vaccine, not what they use today. It wasn’t given to many, which was a good thing, because it was eventually removed and wrought with problems.

In 1967, the live vaccine was given. This too was not used widely, and also wrought with problems.

The MMR was licensed in 1971. They have known since 1979 that the Measles component still has problems.

Herd Immunity?
During the 1991 US outbreak, over 1/2 of the deaths had been vaccinated and in immunocompromised people.

Germany doesn’t rountinely use the Measles vaccine. They found the risks for reactions too high.

Since the MMR is a LIVE vaccine, newly vaccinated children can shed the virus.

MEASLES VACCINE VIRUS:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q…_uids=11858860
the vaccine virus was isolated in the throat, showing that subcutaneous injection of an attenuated measles strain can result in respiratory excretion of this virus.

MUMPS VACCINE VIRUS:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q…_uids=11163655
viral RNA was detected in four samples from three vaccine recipients, 18, 18 and 26, and 7 days after vaccination, respectively. Detected viral RNA was identified as the vaccine strain. Our data suggests that vaccine virus inoculated replicates in the parotid glands but the incidence of virus transmission from recipients to other susceptible subjects should be low.

“should be low” …but what do they really know??

Measles is a virulant illness. It will come and go in cycles as history has shown vaccinated or not.

It is also helps the maturation process in children. Many can make huge developmental milestones after having Measles. Did you also know that children who get Measles are often cured of their eczema. Same goes for psorasis. A child on dialysis will often improve. It also helps children with speech issues.

Measles wasn’t something we ‘feared’ in my generation growing up. Think about why it’s become a ‘fear’ today and why parents think they must vaccinate. What have they been told versus what they haven’t been told?

Only my eldest (5 years) recently got a single DPTaP due to an injury and concern over Tetanus.

I won’t argue about the data suppression, just that we don’t have good numbers as to whether Measles mortality would have continued to decline or if it had reached a natural level given our modern society. What if you could perform a test to determine which children would react negatively to the vaccine first? Would you support it then, or do you believe that vaccination in general just isn’t effective?

I don’t think any parent would argue with that analysis, and you have to make you own mind up as the government is suppressing data.

Then you factor in the fact over 50% of the measles deaths are vaccinated.

And the fact deaths are due to bad medical practice as Dr Donegan points out:

“Under normal conditions, healthy children do not die from or become disabled from the complications of measles and if they do, questions should be asked about their management.” —Jayne Donegan MB

I don’t believe for a moment 1 in 6,500 children die from measles. In 1967 there were 2 deaths per million population. Any statistic offered by well proven 200 year old compulsive liars has to be questioned, especially when they have a pecuniary and professional interest (hence the lies) in vaccination and making out measles is dangerous.

If that stat is true then it would be purely due to vaccination making the disease more dangerous. Either way not good for vaccinators.

If they are afraid of measles then let the homeopaths and naturopaths, or nutritional medical doctors take over, who aren’t, so we can all sleep at night and worry about something else.

Good decision about your kids and MMR, now you just have to dump the lot. Playing Russian Roulette with their life and yours (you can end up a 24/7 carer), for no benefit, isn’t gambling, it’s something else.

Please point out anywhere that I gave any assurances on MMR deaths? The FOIA does not provide accurate information on the breakdown of the DTP vs MMR deaths and it is not referenced, so I don’t see how either of us can verify those numbers.

Even if we assume that only 1 death was due to DTP, you have ~ 350 deaths for the US. In the article, here, they were estimatating 450 deaths (1 in 6500) due to measles.

PS: Neither of my children have received MMR…

“I asked you for evidence that demonstrated that deaths were actually caused by the Urabe strain, and you have singularly failed to provide any evidence whatsoever. You have provided media reports, opinions of parents, and decisions of tribunals or courts. These are not evidence of causality that implicates the Urabe vaccine. Nobody would disagree that deaths have been reported after MMR vaccines. But deaths after vaccination are very different from deaths caused by vaccination.”—Dr David Salisbury, director of immunisation, department of health, London 19.03.07

Vaccinators have been singing the same denial song about vaccine deaths for 2 centuries, at the end of the day we make up our own minds about the truth.

These are the death facts about smallpox vaccine from 1880—killing 25,000 babies a year, and that is easy to prove from government statistics and from the statistics from Leicester http://whale.to/a/deathssmallpox.html who incidently proved all by themselves the fallacy of smallpox vaccination over 30 years of not vaccinating.

Do you think anyone would be listening to your assurances about MMR deaths if they knew that? I don’t think so.

and I think FOIA on MMR and DPT deaths is a good indication of the truth http://whale.to/vaccine/miller333.html , given that only 1-10% of vaccine reactions get reported, according even to the FDA.

And 99.4% decline in measles deaths before vaccination (UK) is not evidence vaccination did anything. It is overwhelming evidence it did absolutely nothing.

“There are some easy figures which the simplest must understand, but the astutest cannot wriggle out of.” –Disraeli (ref)

I can sympathize with your unfortunate situation in the US. Fortunately, I do not have the same problem because in Canada my right to abstain myself and my children is constitutionally guaranteed. I’ve also had no difficulty in dealing with my Paed, who is perfectly willing to go along with any vaccine combination or schedule I choose.

Given the increase in globalization, I think it likely that importation will become more difficult to stop, and is likely not a good solution. Even if you think that things won’t change, I think it is still important when complaining to recommend a solution.

I am interested at what ages the measles virus is the most damaging. If it is older ages, then that alone might provide a window to delay vaccination.

I suspect tests to determine vaccine reactivity would not be that hard to create if effort was put toward the cause. We currently have ways of testing allergies to hundreds of things, and there are alternative therapies that claim to be able to detect allergies through machines rather than scratch tests.

There is certainly evidence that Measles deaths did decline due to vaccination. However, the decline that one can attribute to vaccines is at the very end of the overall decline.

Alas, the same problems that plague the CDC statements (lack of credible evidence) also plague your own. We do not have credible evidence that MMR kills more children than measles did. Your method of argument is effectively equivalent to that of the CDC… flawed.

I fully support the idea that MMR is potentially causing harm to a subset of children, but it is important in a scientific debate to provide credible evidence. Otherwise you are guilty of the same sins of the CDC and medicine in general.